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Ep 11 | SPECIAL: Wisdom from a Grad Part 1, Truth with Jenna Gibson

 

We sit down with recent TCS graduate Jenna Gibson. Jenna was the president of Trinity’s Students for Life Club, and through both her involvement in the club and her strong convictions as a believer, she has become a passionate advocate for seeking and remaining rooted in truth. Truth is one of Trinity’s core values, and in this episode, Jenna talks with us about what truth is, why it’s important to be truth-seekers, and shares her own experiences of standing for truth, even when it goes against what is popular. 

If everything is subjective, than we have no morals, we have no fact, we have no truth...You can't say 'subjective truth.' It's contradictory. God is absolute truth.

     

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The scriptures are how we get to know God, and your relationship with God will affect your whole life.

Transcript

 

Disclaimer: This is a direct transcript of the podcast audio and may not be grammatically correct.

 

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Intro: 

Welcome to “Mind and Heart,” a podcast by Trinity Christian School in Fairfax, Virginia. In this space, we explore our calling to raise up the next generation to be solved and light in the world. 

Hello, and welcome to “Mind and Heart,” a podcast by Trinity Christian School. I'm your host, Jo Wilbur, and today I'm sitting down with graduating TCS senior Jenna Gibson. Jenna is the president of Trinity Students for Life Club, and through both her involvement in the club and her strong convictions as a believer, she has become a passionate advocate for seeking and remaining rooted in truth. 

Truth is one of Trinity's core values, and today Jenna is going to talk with us about what truth is, why it's important to be truth seekers, and share her own experiences of standing in truth, even when it goes against what is popular. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jenna. 

Jenna Gibson:  

Thank you for having me here today. I'm so excited to talk on the topic of truth. It's so important for us as believers. 

Jo Wilbur:  

Absolutely. So, for my first question, before we get into the topic, I do just want to give you an opportunity to share a little bit about yourself or our listeners who may not know you personally. So, could you just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you're into.  

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. I've been a Trinity student for the past 10 years. I got here in third grade, and I have not regretted one minute of joining this school. It has taught me much of what I know about the faith, and it has taught me those foundational apologetic beliefs that we all need as believers. 

I'm excited to be graduating this year. I'll be going off to Christopher Newport University to study business management, and I was able to get into their Presidential Leadership Program. So I'm going to further my leadership skills at the school.  

Jo Wilbur:  

That's amazing. Congratulations on getting into that program. That is really exciting, and I'm not surprised at all because you're definitely a leader here at Trinity and I know you'll, be a leader there as well. Could you tell us a little bit about how you first got involved in the Students for Life Club here at Trinity?  

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. I had gotten involved about three years ago, Alyssa Thoburn had originally started the club. So, I always want to make sure I give her credit for the courage it took for her to start that club here. It was much needed. And since then, I started and I immediately ran as a board member and they were gracious enough to let me on. I was the youngest board member. I was a sophomore.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Wow.  

Jenna Gibson:  

That's kind of where some of my leadership abilities began because I had to learn what responsibility meant and what accountability meant, because you're working as a team together, trying to get all of the learning objectives met and trying to teach other people about what it meant to be a part of Students for Life. And since then, I would've been president for the past two years, and I have done my best, and I think that we've done a pretty good job at fundraising and outreach programs.  

Jo Wilbur:  

I know you guys are always doing really cool stuff here in the school for that cause, and I've gotten to witness that a lot. 

So, in a previous conversation we had, you talked about actually when you were a sophomore feeling called to join the club. Can you talk just a little bit about that? What does that mean that you felt called, and what made you interested in that particular cause?  

Jenna Gibson:  

Yeah, so we all know that sanctity of life for the unborn is important as believers, and we know generally that fighting for the life of the unborn is something that we should do. And when I saw the flyer on the wall that said “Join Trinity Students for Life Club next Tuesday,” and it was probably already a month into school. I had missed probably the first meeting or first two meetings, but I saw it on the wall and I was like, “That's something I think I would be interested in.” 

And I got there and they were actually having speeches like the next week for running for a board member. And I felt a calling and I was like, “I feel like God wanted me to be here right now.” 

Jo Wilbur:  

Yeah.  

Jenna Gibson:  

And I said to myself, “You know, if you want to make a difference, you can, and you just need to take the steps there to do it.” 

And part of that step was becoming a board member so that you could have that role in the membership to, you know, put your ideas out there and do things that you know, will make a difference like working with outside entities like pregnancy centers and outreach programs going on the streets, sidewalk chalking outside of Planned Parenthoods and trying to talk to women through sidewalk, advocacy to help them turn around. 

So, I just felt called to do that. And I didn't know every single detail about child development in the womb, and I might not have known all of the scriptural verses that supported it, but I knew that the Bible did teach that principle that, all life is valuable.  

Jo Wilbur:  

So, you really just went for it that first day that you showed up, you already basically had to start running to be on the board. That's such a Jenna move. That's awesome. I applaud you for that. Can you tell me just a little bit about then how the club runs and operates? How often do you all meet and what does a normal club meeting look like? 

Jenna Gibson:  

We meet twice a month on the first and third Tuesday of every month. The meetings vary because we have to cover everything from what it looks like to be someone who's in a conversation debating with somebody who is pro-choice and how to defend yourself and what you believe, and also teaching them about fetal development, about when the heartbeat begins, about when nerve begins, because, part of being able to make a strong argument for yourself is knowing the facts. And if you don't know the facts, then you might not be able to support yourself. So, we pull in scriptural verses that back up our argument, we pull in scientific evidence for life beginning at conception, which there is an abundance of, yet people don't always know about it. And then you also have fundraising and outreach, where we're making maybe NICU bags like we did this year…  

Jo Wilbur:  

Right.  

Jenna Gibson:  

Or we're trying to get the baby bottles ready for the Baby Bottle Campaign to fundraise for Sanctity of Life Ministries, or if it means trying to coordinate together for going to the pro-life March, making signs, getting people to sign up. Those are all included in the club. It's a, it's a variety and we want to make sure it's always interesting. And we even debate each other. We'll divide the room. Say “you guys are going to fight for the pro-choice,” and “you guys are going to fight for the pro-life,” and they do their best with what they know. 

And that's really how you build people up because practice is how you get to the point where you feel comfortable in your own skin enough to, say, “Hey, even if you oppose me, I'm going be able to say something back that I know for fact is true and I know will help my argument and may even change somebody's mind on the issue,” which is really the ultimate goal is you want people to become pro-life  

Jo Wilbur:  

Right. And ultimately save babies then, right?  

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes.  

Jo Wilbur:  

So that's amazing. So, it sounds like the club really is focused on several things. Number one being education, educating yourself and each other, looking at the facts, looking at what scripture says. Another element is service, right? You're serving the community. You're helping those NICU nurses and the babies and raising money for women who are pregnant and find themselves in a tough place financially. And then lastly, it's also advocacy, right? You're going, and you're doing sidewalk chalking and sidewalk advocacy. And this past January, you all were able to go to “March for Life” is that correct? Can tell us about that experience?  

Jenna Gibson:  

I was so excited to be able to go to the “March for Life.” It's something I had wanted the group to do for a while. We had been able to go with all the seniors in, I believe 2020, but since then we really hadn't gotten a group from Trinity out there. We went there and it was such an empowering and moving scene. 

It was all just miles worth of people it seemed, and you were all there for a common purpose. And there were people there that, were, like, I don't know, they, they just, they, you wouldn't peg them as pro-life people in the sense that there was like an LGBTQ group that was like “We're pro-life.” And there was, yeah, of course, a large amount of Catholic groups that were there for pro-life and you saw priests and pastors walking around people holding crosses. 

And it, it was empowering. And to see people our age too, because, a lot of people assume that pro-life people are older, conservative, you know, Southern Baptist folks. And that is not true. We brought it to the DC area where some of the largest numbers of abortions happened. And we walked on the street, we walked on the steps of the Supreme Court, and we said, “This is what we believe in.” 

And that's so wonderful about America is that you get that freedom of speech and you can do it in a peaceful way and it gets your message out there, and you have so much support, and it just empowers you to go home and you're like, “Wow, I'm really fired up. What can I do right now? How can I volunteer? How can I give my time and how can I make a difference?” 

Jo Wilbur:  

Wow. That's so inspiring to hear. Every year I want to go. And every year something comes up, but maybe my time is still coming. Um, while you were there, did you meet with any backlash? Were there counter protestors at all that you came face to face with? 

Jenna Gibson:  

There were counter-protestors, but there were so many people I actually could not see them. They were blocking the street, and so we had our walk postponed. We were standing there for about 45 minutes past the time we were supposed to begin because they were making a line in the street we couldn't get through, but with the help of some of the law enforcement, they said, “You can't stop this March from happening.” And so they allowed us to get through. And those people that protested us… that is something that comes with the freedom of speech. You're going to have people who oppose you and thankfully they weren't violent. They were quiet protesters, but they still protested. And maybe seeing the vast majority of pro-lifers come and march through could have opened their mind up a little bit. That's always what we hope for.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Amen. You know, you describe that and being there, I imagine it's really hard, especially as a young person, to stand for truth, and especially when it goes against the popular narrative and the popular rhetoric. You mentioned, you know, people assume that the pro-life generation is the older generation, but really you're saying there are so many young people there. Why is it important for young people, in particular, to seek and stand for truth rather than just go along with whatever's popular?  

Jenna Gibson:  

Well, I think that young people need to set an example for other young people, because something I've noticed is a lot of people want to follow the flow rather than stand up for what they believe in. And I largely promote standing up for what you believe in obviously. And I think that when people see others standing up and fighting for what they believe in, it empowers them to do the same. You have to stop thinking, “Oh, I'm going to be setting an example only for those younger than me,” because it's not true. You set an example for everybody. Everybody sees you. You're going to make a difference, whether you like it or not. And you have to think to yourself, “What kind of difference do I want to make? Do I want to be somebody that just goes with the flow, goes with the majority, or do I want to think and be conscientious about those decisions I'm making and the impact that has?” 

Jo Wilbur:  

What do you think are some of the major pitfalls that young people face when trying to derive truth, right? Where are they looking for truth? Where are they getting their concept of what's true, what's right? What are some traps that they fall into in society, do you think? 

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. Getting your facts from unreliable sources that are subjective rather than objective, and you have to look at fact rather than people's opinions because a lot of the time people fall into the trap of “this person, they're famous and they're popular and therefore they are reliable. And what they say is true,” but that's not true. God is the absolute truth. Whether you want to look at the Bible and look at scripture and take that as fact, which we as Christians do, but, more people, we always want to come to the faith and understand that's the absolute truth. And that's the standard you want to strive for.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yes.  

Jenna Gibson:  

And also, as Christians, so many people, well, thankfully as Christians, we know that you don't need to separate science from faith. And a lot of people do they say, “If you're going be somebody of the faith, you also can't be somebody who believes in science,” which is completely untrue. God created science.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yes.  

Jenna Gibson:  

And the ability to obtain knowledge and have intelligence, and he gave that as one of his communicable attributes to us.  

Jo Wilbur:  

I think that's huge. And I love that you talk about this sort of idea of subjective truth versus objective truth, which is really… saying “subjective truth” is a bit of a misnomer, right? Because truth by definition is objective. And I think so many people in this day and age, and once again, particularly young people I think in your generation, are living with this worldview of this sort of moral relativism. And I think they don't even realize maybe that they're operating from that mindset. So, you are talking about rather than deriving truth from your personal opinions, or what's popular, looking for something outside of yourself, looking to scripture and looking to reason and scientific fact. 

Jenna Gibson:  

Just assuming things and saying, I feel this way. It's like, but why?  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yeah. Or even if you do feel that way, what does that tell me about, what's true? 

Jenna Gibson:  

Yeah. Yes. When you start making exceptions and saying that scientific fact is no longer a fact it's an opinion, then you start getting into a lot of other problems. Like how can we know anything? It's like, it's how can, how can you, if everything is subjective, then we have no morals.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yeah.  

Jenna Gibson:  

We have, we have, we have nothing. We, we have no fact we have no truth. If everything is subjective, then you're going to confuse a lot of people.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yes.  

Jenna Gibson:  

A lot of people are going to be led in the wrong direction, and we don't want that.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Subjective truth is not truth.  

Jenna Gibson:  

You can't say “subjective truth.” It's contradictory.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yes.  

Jenna Gibson:  

“Your truth is my truth,” and “my truth is not your truth…” that is not true. People need to stop saying “It's my truth,” but it's… you can't have “my truth.” It's your opinion. It's my opinion. You can say that.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yeah. 

Jenna Gibson:  

You can't say it's “my truth” though. Because God is absolute truth and you are not God.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yes. Well said, well said. So, if you could put that in practical terms for us, how do you implement those things? Scriptural truth, reason, and science. How would you incorporate that into, an argument for life? So, I don't know if you could give us an example of how you use all three of those things, or maybe that's two things, um, of what that would look like. Yeah. When it comes to being pro-life.  

Jenna Gibson:  

Science has proved life begins at conception. We learned that as we grew, obviously in the scientific community and infrastructure and all of that. And so we need to take that and we need to use that, and that is one of those things science has given us, is that they have been able through science to prove that life begins at conception, and that zygote is in fact life. It's an organism and it's a living organism and that is when life begins and that is a human in the womb. Science is one of the ways we prove that truth in the Bible to be fact.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Right.  

Jenna Gibson:  

And we do that with many other things.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yes. It's a, it's a human life in the womb with separate DNA than the mother. 

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes.  

Jo Wilbur:  

It's scientifically, even if you don't believe in the Bible, as you say, scientifically, it's undeniable that that's a human life. So, I think to make that argument for pro-choice, you have to first wrestle with the fact that this is a life and abortion is ending a life.  

Jenna Gibson:  

And now. they're trying to make an argument of “What is life worth?” 

And then people take that and they say “that's a subjective that's, that's something that you can make your own idea on.”  

Jo Wilbur:  

Right. “It’s up to the mother.”  

Jenna Gibson:  

“It's up to the mother if the baby is worthy of life.” And then you get into a lot of it's a slippery slope argument of, “Hey, well, if you don't think that life is worthy, then, what do you determine is worthy of life?” 

Because what is it? Being able to be independent, live on your own? There's plenty of people in our society who cannot be independent living on their own. They would not survive in society without somebody assisting them.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Personally, I would not survive without my husband. So, I can attest to that.  

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. Think of some kids today, they might, they would not survive without their parents around. Think of the elderly community. They need assistance and we take care of them. Are they less worthy of life because they can't survive on their own? They can’t just live in the world without any help from other people. 

Jo Wilbur:  

Right. It's that argument of viability. Yeah. And so, it's like, well, okay, a six-month-old outside the womb is not viable either without the help of the mother. It's not a logical argument. It's not a scientific argument that they can make.  

Jenna Gibson:  

No.  

Jo Wilbur:  

So, this is a perfect example of how logic and science play a role here in making that pro-life argument. And then can you give us an example of scripture too, where scripture might speak to that truth as well?  

Jenna Gibson:  

Scripture is obviously our best use to defend what we believe in. And we go back to Psalm 1 39:13-14. It tells us about how God “formed my inward parts. You knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you for, I am fearfully and wonderfully made wonderful are your works, my soul knows it very well.” 

And those verses are always much more moving than your opinion. And when you are looking to defend your faith, you always want to go back to scripture because that is where you find the truth. And that's where you're always going to find the truth. And it is always reliable. You can trust the Bible if you cannot trust anything else, you always have the Bible. 

Jo Wilbur:  

Yes, because the, the winds of this world are always changing. What's popular one minute is not popular the next. Um, but to have a God who's eternal, and the fact that his word is eternal and never changing, it is the most solid foundation for us, which is so comforting. I don't know about you, but I know I can feel so overwhelmed when I start to look around me and it feels like everything is starting to move in the exact opposite direction from truth, the exact opposite direction of what the Bible says. So, there's a real element of fear that goes along with standing in truth. I don't know if, do you have anything to say about how do we stand in truth? It kind of goes hand in hand with courage, right?  

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes.  

Jo Wilbur:  

In order to stand for truth, you have to have courage. 

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. You have to be courageous. You have to make sure that no matter what anybody else says to you their opinion is not more important than scripture. You have to remember, you are making the right choice to stand in your faith. And no matter what they say, it is not more important than what scripture tells is true. 

Jo Wilbur:  

Right. It ultimately comes down to trust. Are you going to trust that the Lord is who he says he is?  

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. Trust in the Lord. 

Jo Wilbur:  

Yeah. You have to trust to be obedient. When you go out, like when you went to the March, for instance, and you are, you could say on the front lines of this battle, and it really is a battle for truth. 

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. We had bullhorns going. We were saying what we believed in and we were proud of it.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yes. And what role does prayer play in that? Have you felt more of a dependence on prayer and on trusting in the Lord as you go out and do these scary things?  

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. You, you pray to God and you say, God protect me because there have been protests and there’s been violent action taken. And all you can hope is that you are doing God's works. You're doing what he wants you to be doing, and you have to remember that and you have to keep fighting for what you believe in and try to not have fear, because fear is really just the devil trying to seep in and take away some of that trust you have in the Lord. And I think that when I go out and I am interacting with people face to face who disagree with me, or even if I'm talking to people through like that DM me on Instagram, I'm going to do my best to respond in graciousness and love, even though you disagree with me because I know you are also a child that God has created. 

And even though you might not be following in the faith and you might be somebody who claims to be of the faith but disagreeing about the pro-life movement, I'm still going to be trying to be gracious to you, because I respect you. You try to respect people the best you can, even if they're being rude.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yeah. You have to fear the Lord more than you fear, man. That's what it comes down to. And that becomes a good litmus test for your faith. Right? If I'm fearing man to the point where it's keeping me from obeying God, it shows where my faith really is, it, where my idols really are. Right? 

Jenna Gibson:  

It does.  

Jo Wilbur:  

So, we talked about when you're forming those arguments, you're looking to science, you're looking to scripture and you've given us great examples of those. As I'm listening to you, I feel like I'm talking to a peer, like 30-year-old, not like an 18-year-old um, just because you have such a firm grasp on why it's important to seek truth and what that means and where you're deriving truth, right, which is scripture and reason. Um, which is just, yeah, you're very anchored in truth and yeah, it makes me wonder, where is that coming from? Is that something that you feel you've been taught here at Trinity? If so, how have you been taught to look for that truth? And has there been a particular mentor or teacher who has walked you through, how to do that and even challenged you on your perceptions of what is true?  

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. So, I would say that I owe a lot of my reasoning skills and my logic skills and my knowledge of scripture to my apologetics teacher, Mr. de Gastyne. He was, he had, a funny beginning here at Trinity. He was supposed to be a long-term sub, but he turned into being our junior and senior class teacher. And I could not have thought of a better one. He has the perfect personality for seniors, and he knows what will resonate with us and what will not and how we will learn best. 

And I thank him so much and I'm so grateful for what he has done for us. I think he's really helped us become some of the young adults we are today. I think the lesson this year that I grasped most was we have to always remember the Bible is without fallacy. It does not contradict itself. And we think to ourselves, “Okay, but one, what, what if one line in the Bible says something different than the other verse in the Bible and it seems contradictory?” We always look at things in context, you have to go back. You have to see how that was said and see what the writer or the speaker was actually trying to say, because if you look at it in context, it will never contradict itself. 

You will always find that they align with each other, they are parallel meanings. And that is something that I wish people would do more because so many things in news, especially. People take things out of context in the Bible, they call us a misogynistic faith a lot of the time because they think that women in scripture, aren't given proper representation, but this is all untrue. 

And we have to remind ourselves that we always have to go back to scriptures, see what things say in context, and when you're hearing something in the real world, in news, from somebody else, what are they saying in the context of the situation that is happening?  

Jo Wilbur:  

Right. Right. Well, I love that you're pointing people to context because you're right. Both in scripture and in the news that's going on around us, i's such an important practice to have in place. Who is the person talking to? Who are they talking about? What is going on around them politically, both in the Bible and in terms of the news.  

And I think it's, especially in this day and age, more so than ever with TikTok, which are ten-second videos, you know, sometimes so quick, you get one little sound bite and you've made a snap decision about someone, a snap opinion about a certain issue that's going on like abortion, maybe. I think a lot of people who have a very strong opinion, typically pro-choice, a strong pro-choice opinion, it's because of, you know, one popular, 20-second soundbite, that's going around one popular meme or one popular, you know, graphic on Instagram that's being shared and their whole opinion, their whole faith, and I will call it faith, in that argument, in that side of things is founded on a soundbite, is founded on a meme.  

So, I, I would say that would be a perfect piece of advice for listeners, would be when seeking truth, always look for it in context, look for the context. Do you have any other pieces of advice for, young people who might be listening, who are inspired by what you're saying? Maybe even feel convicted that, “Ooh, I've been deriving a lot of my truth from TikTok.” Um, what advice would you give to them?  

Jenna Gibson:  

Read. Books. It always helps you gain knowledge. And read the Bible, most importantly. A lot of people that are young tend to not take the time out of their day to sit down and devote time to scriptures, and scriptures is how we get to know God, and your relationship with God will affect your whole life. 

So, you need to have a good relationship with him in order to be a stable, God-fearing child. And if you are not being a God-fearing child, then you're not living the best life you could be living. And it might take that hard 10 minutes out of your day to put that time to reading scripture, and all that time all of the kids my age are spending on social media and TikTok, you can't make the excuse that you don't have time for the Bible. You do have time for the Bible. You're making time for your social media accounts. You're making time for yourself to relax. Make time for God too.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Well said. I do want to say, um, it's… you say “kids your age.” It’s kids your age, and I know we've been focusing on young people. It's kids my age too. It’s 30-year-old kids.  

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. That's true.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Myself included. I’m feeling convicted that so often I get stuck in the TikTok or Instagram trap and I'm scrolling and I look up and it's been two hours of my life wasted. And I think, you know, I've heard it said before, and this is not going to be a perfect quote, but something to the effect of, "There's no neutral ground. You're filling your mind and your heart with something it's being filled at every moment and it's either being filled with truth or with lies," and what we're seeing on social media and in popular culture, so often it's lies. And so, it's not just that, “hey, you're not filling your mind with truth,” but as you say, it's instead you're going to something else and you're filling it with untruth with lies, right? 

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes. What are you prioritizing?  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yeah, absolutely. Another thing too is, you know, people so often, especially non-Christians that I hear say like, “Well, I've never heard from God, how am I supposed to hear from God, God hasn't spoken”–and Christians say this “God hasn't spoken to me. I feel distant from him.” And I think “When's the last time you, you read the Bible? Because he's speaking to you.” When you read the Bible, it's him speaking to you.  

Jenna Gibson:  

And if you ever find yourself in tough spots or you don't feel motivated to do the things in life that matter anymore, you most likely haven't been spending enough time in your Bible.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Yeah.  

Jenna: And there is most definitely a correlation between the two.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Absolutely. And if you're a Christian and you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you, he will direct you. He'll direct you to exactly the truth that you need to find, seek truth and find it. And that's the beautiful thing, that he offers to us. Well, thank you so much, Jenna. Is there anything else that you'd want to add that maybe I forgot to ask you or should have asked you either about truth in general and being truth seekers, which we aim to be, or about Students for Life? 

Jenna Gibson:  

I always love to say that, “You're not going make a difference by sitting in your own little corner of the world. You have to get out there and you have to be in a community with others and a community of believers. And who you surround yourself with, makes a difference.” If you are not currently involved with anything in the pro-life cause, for you speak for you listening out there, I hope you felt called today to go and make a difference. And there are a number of clinics people can volunteer at and there's… anybody can do fundraising and anybody can go out and have conversations with people in the world if you're bold enough.  

Jo Wilbur:  

Absolutely.  

Jenna Gibson:  

So, go make a difference. You have the ability to, no matter what you think, you, you do, you have a voice. 

Jo Wilbur:  

Well, you heard it here first. Thank you so much, Jenna. Uh, this has been a huge encouragement to me, and I know it will be a huge encouragement to everyone who listens. 

Jenna Gibson:  

Yes, thank you for having me here today. It was a wonderful discussion. 

Outro:

Thanks for joining us for this episode of “Mind and Heart,” a podcast by Trinity Christian School. For more information, visit us at TCSfairfax.org. 

 

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